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I understand, he said, and you are quite right.

And you would also acknowledge that the enchanted are those who

change their minds either under the softer influence of pleasure,

or the sterner influence of fear?

Yes, he said; everything that deceives may be said to enchant.

Therefore, as I was just now saying, we must enquire who are the

best guardians of their own conviction that what they think the

interest of the State is to be the rule of their lives. We must

watch them from their youth upwards, and make them perform

actions in which they are most likely to forget or to be

deceived, and he who remembers and is not deceived is to be

selected, and he who fails in the trial is to be rejected. That

will be the way?

Yes.

And there should also be toils and pains and conflicts prescribed

for them, in which they will be made to give further proof of the

same qualities.

Very right, he replied.