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I know, I said, that such was your position; but what I would

further consider is, whether this power which is possessed by the

superior state can exist or be exercised without justice or only

with justice.

If you are right in your view, and justice is wisdom, then only

with justice; but if I am right, then without justice.

I am delighted, Thrasymachus, to see you not only nodding assent

and dissent, but making answers which are quite excellent.

That is out of civility to you, he replied.

You are very kind, I said; and would you have the goodness also

to inform me, whether you think that a state, or an army, or a

band of robbers and thieves, or any other gang of evil-doers

could act at all if they injured one another?

No indeed, he said, they could not.

But if they abstained from injuring one another, then they might

act together better?

Yes.

And this is because injustice creates divisions and hatreds and

fighting, and justice imparts harmony and friendship; is not that

true, Thrasymachus?